A Forthright Podcast: Leaning Into the Divide

Unpacking our flags and the emotion they carry for each of us

It could have been a fight instead of a conversation, or worse no conversation at all, just a cold-shouldered canceling. It turned into a commitment to produce a series of podcasts leaning into and working through tough issues with a Braver Angels attitude, believing that in disagreements both sides share and learn.

Here’s the backstory:

The February 18th Substack post started with a simple green Washington state flag, then an American flag . . . and then I described an incident where the trans flag with all the straight and angled stripes in more-than-a-rainbow of colors surprised me in a place where I wasn’t expecting to see it. And my emotional reaction . . .

“It was a gut punch. My feet stopped moving and I considered turning around. And what I felt was “this is the same reaction I’d have if I walked in and saw the Nazi flag.”

The images of the state flag with good old George on a green background, the Stars & Stripes, the trans pride and the Nazi flags were dropped into the essay.

Byron Odion, my very Blue-leaning Braver Angels friend, called me up to tell me how he’d felt gut-punched by seeing the Nazi flag in the Substack post. Byron’s emotional reaction could have led to an invitation for Godwin’s Law* to prevail and communication to halt. This time, thanks to our Braver Angels connection, it led to a conversation and not a fight.

We listened to each other. We learned. We kept learning and decided by the end of the conversation to launch a podcast and recruit others to work with us.

On this first full episode, first meet Raven, Roger and Gregory who will be joining Byron and I for roundtables on future uncomfortable topics. Then listen to the totally unscripted recording that inspired it all as Byron and I unpacked our flags, our emotions and our passion for carrying our conversation through the hard parts.

Episode One - Forthright Conversations: Leaning Into the Divide
Unpacking our flags and the emotion they carry for each of us

Send us your feedback, we can take it! Please keep it clean, I will moderate comments and delete profanity. Byron has special dispensation for two f-bombs in this first episode, but I have a low threshold for Anglo-Saxon crudities unless the goats have knocked over a fence and gotten into my garden, in which case even I’ve been known to swear.

Godwin’s Law: The longer an online conversation continues, the more of a chance there is to mention Hitler.